940 + Win11 (25H2): right-click on RAR does not populate WinRAR in popup menu

[dsperber]

WinRAR (v7.13 64-bit) installed, shell extension implemented.



so that it supposedly appears in right-click popup menu on RAR file.

And in Win11 (25H2) File Explorer, right-click on RAR file does show WinRAR at the very bottom of the primary right-click popup menu. Note it does seem to populate that WinRAR item at the bottom, after the main top portion of the File Explorer primary popup menu completes. This may have something to do with how WinRAR inserts itself into the Windows shell. This is probably what is causing the problem with FCXE not presenting it on its right-click menu. Also note that PowerISO is NOT shown on this first primary popup menu.



Note that WinRAR also appears up near the top of the Win11 File Explorer secondary popup menu (i.e. if you click on "Show more options"), which produces the classical Win10 version of the right-click popup menu. Also note that PowerISO (which also inserts itself into the Windows shell) appears on this secondary File Explorer menu, but does NOT appear on the original primary menu.




Also note that WinRAR (as well as PowerISO) appears in the Explorer right-click menu when running Win7:




However in Win11 (25H2) using FCXE (940) and right-clicking on a RAR file, FCXE does NOT show WinRAR in the popup menu (although it DOES show PowerISO):



In contrast, in Win7 also using FCXE and right-clicking on a RAR file, FCXE DOES show WinRAR (as well as PowerISO) in popup menu:




Finally, note in the above screenshots that Notepad++ also inserts itself into the Window shell. In Win11 its entry only appears in Explorer's secondary "show more options" right-click menu, not in the primary first right-click menu. And using FCXE the right-click menu DOES present Notepad++ from that secondary menu, same as it showed PowerISO from that secondary menu.

So it is only in the handling of WinRAR, which appears (slightly delayed) at the bottom of the primary menu, as well as up at the top of the secondary menu, which appears to be confusing FCXE in its presention of the right-click menu.

[Marek]

I tested 940 (64 & 32 bit) + Win11 (24H2) - WinRAR item exists always in the context menu, if you start FC as normal user.
If FC is started as Admin - the WinRAR item disappear from the context menu.

[dsperber]

I have to report that whatever Microsoft implemented in 25H2 is the key change here. They made significant modifications to the taskbar and in particular the notification area (system tray), insofar as what user modifications are still allowed to do or not do. As an example, the Github product "Explorer Patcher" works fine with 24H2, but is simply incompatible with 25H2. I'm suggesting that a similar incompatiblity or difference is affecting the FCXE processing which prevents the WinRAR entry from appearing.

I've now tried running FCXE as non-administrator as you've suggested, and it makes no difference whatsoever. I'm not surprised your results testing under 24H2 may be different (and show the WinRAR entry in the popup menu), but I can report that with 25H2 running non-admin as "user" still DOES NOT SHOW WINRAR (but DOES show both Notepad++ and PowerISO):



I do again point out that however Notepad++ and PowerISO insert themselves into the Windows shell (and the both do that, just like WinRAR does... but apparently somewhat differently), FCXE does present them on its own right-click menu popup. And again this is with 25H2, not 24H2.

But both of these programs also do NOT insert themselves in the "Explorer primary right-click menu" as WinRAR does (at the bottom).



However both Notepad++ and PowerIS do insert themselves only in the secondary "show more options" Explorer popup menu, along with WinRAR which appear there as well.

[dsperber]

I tested 940 (64 & 32 bit) + Win11 (24H2) - WinRAR item exists always in the context menu, if you start FC as normal user.
If FC is started as Admin - the WinRAR item disappear from the context menu.

Do you have a 25H2 system to test this on for yourself? I no longer have a back-level 24H2 system to try it on.

I believe if you do have a 25H2 system then you will see that with respect to seeing WinRAR in the right-click popup menu shell extension then no matter which mode is in effect (admin or user) for FCXE the WinRAR entry does not appear when 25H2 is the environment.

And in contrast, the other "shell extension" insertions for other 3rd-party software products like Notepad++ and PowerISO, their entries DO appear when running 25H2... for both admin-mode and user-mode of FCXE.

So it's clearly something caused by how WinRAR must be inserting itself that is different from the other products, but FCXE's reaction to this difference is clearly the key as to why WinRAR does not appear at all with FCXE.

Note that Win11 has "evolved" its right-click File Explorer menu over time. Early on the much-needed COPY, CUT, PASTE, etc. items didn't appear on the original "primary" newly abbreviated popup menu. You had to go to the secondary "show more options" menu to see the old classical Win10-looking menu with this important functional items. Apparently responding to user complaints about this annoying inconvenience, MS has now added back the requested originally omitted functions as "buttons" presented either at the top or bottom of the primary File Explorer menu (depending on screen location for the popup).

I don't remember when exactly this "improvement" was brought out but it's definitely in 25H2, and certainly wasn't there originally with Win11. Might this be involved with the "WinRAR missing from FCXE right-click popup menu" story?

And also remember that WinRAR is different in another way from Notepad++ and PowerISO which do NOT appear on the primary File Explorer popup menu but only appear on the secondary "show more options" menu. In contrast, WinRAR appends itself to the bottom of the primary File Explorer menu and is also visible near the top of the secondary menu. Clearly it is implemented differently than Notepad++ and PowerISO, and this difference is likely involved with why WinRAR is completely missing from the one-and-only single right-click popup menu presented by FCXE.

And finally, note that on older versions of Windows which still have just one right-click popup menu from Explorer (including Win10 and Win7), WinRAR and Notepad++ and PowerISO all appear on the one FCXE right-click popup menu.So the whole store starts with Win11 and its now abbreviated primary and "show more options" secondary menus design, and what appears on the first or second menus.

[dsperber]

Update after new testing with version 944:

(1) I started up an old laptop that is still running Win11 23H2, upgraded FCXE to latest version 944, and tested right-click menu behavior on the various files with extensions which are supported by WinRAR (including ZIP, RAR, 7Z, etc.).

(a) ADMIN-mode -> no WinRAR ever in right-click menu from FCXE, no matter first, second, third, etc. try.

(b) USER-mode -> WinRAR appears near the top of the right-click menu from FCXE on the first, second, third, etc., and EVERY right-click.

Note that this 23H2 behavior seems to match your posted results when testing under 24H2 where you described this exact same pattern.


(2) I went back and re-tested on three different Win11 25H2 machines, again all first updated to latest FCXE version 944:

(a) ADMIN-mode -> no WinRAR ever appears in right-click menu from FCXE, on any file whose extension is associated with WinRAR as the default program. Not on first, second, third, etc., try, no matter what file extension. Never in ADMIN-mode. Not first-click, not ever.

(b) USER-mode -> FIRST RIGHT-CLICK in a given FCXE launch session on a WinRAR-associated file DOES NOT PRESENT WINRAR in right-click menu. But if I then simply re-try the right-click on the very same file or in fact any other WinRAR-associated file, well now WinRAR DOES APPEAR IN THE RIGHT-CLICK MENU. And as long as I remain within the same FCXE launch session, the right-click DOES still produce WinRAR in the right-click menu. So first right-click fails, but second and subsequent right-click works, as long as this is still within the same FCXE launch session.

(c) USER-Mode -> if I close FCXE, and then re-launch it, now once again the very first right-click on a WinRAR-associated file does NOT present WinRAR in the right-click menu. But once again the second and subsequent right-clicks on any WinRAR-associated file WILL PRESENT WinRAR in the right-click menu.


(3) In ALL VERSIONS OF WINDOWS, including Win7, Win11 23H2 and Win11 25H2, right-click menu on ANY FILE (with ANY extension whatsoever) shows shell-extension inserted values for Notepad++ and PowerISO. Doesn't matter whether the program shortcut is set to run in USER-mode or ADMIN-mode, and doesn't matter what the filename extension is. However Notepad++ and PowerISO have inserted themselves into the Windows shell, both programs will ALWAYS appear on any right-click (first or subsequent within FCXE session) menu, for both ADMIN-mode and USER-mode. Any mode, any file, any extension -> NOTEPAD++ and PowerISO appear in the right-click menu, inside of FCXE or in Windows File Explorer.

In contrast, because of some apparently unique and more sophisticated way WinRAR inserts itself into the Windows shell (perhaps because either (a) it supports an optional "cascaded" or "non-cascaded" presentation while the other two programs do not, or (b) WinRAR only appears in an Explorer right-click menu if the file extension IS WinRAR-associated as the default program and does NOT appear on right-click menu for other file extensions which are NOT WinRAR-assocated as the default program), WinRAR will NEVER appear in a right-click menu inside of an FCXE session if FCXE is running in ADMIN-mode. WinRAR only appears in right-click menu from Windows File explorer if extension is WinRAR-associated as the default program.

And again, in USER-mode, WinRAR only appears in second and subsequent (within the same FCXE launch sessions) right-click menu of files whose extension is WinRAR-associated as the default program. In USER-mode WinRAR does NOT appear in first right-click menu for those WinRAR-associated files, but WILL appear on second and subsequent right-click menu for those files within the same FCXE launch session.


I once again request that this complex / inconsistent behavior be corrected so that the right-click menu on any file when inside of FCXE is presented EXACTLY THE SAME WAY IT LOOKS UNDER WINDOWS FILE EXPLORER!!

With Windows File Explorer there is no way to "run as administrator" or otherwise "run as user". You just run it, however it launches. And in its now launched state (whatever it is), if you right click on a file that is WinRAR-associated by default, then WinRAR WILL APPEAR in the right-click menu (either cascaded or non-cascaded, as facilitated by WinRAR's shell extension), And if you right click on any other file whose extension is NOT WinRAR-associated by default, then WinRAR DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE RIGHT-CLICK MENU.

I would like to see right-click menu behavior related to WInRAR inside of FCXE work exactly the same way as right-click menu behavior works related to WinRAR when using Windows File Explorer instead of FCXE. All file types (both WinRAR-associated and not, both ADMIN-mode and USER-MODE) I think it is a reasonable expectation to have right-click work the same under FCXE as it does under Windows File Explorer. And no matter Win7, Win10 or Win11 (all versions 23H2, 24H2, 25H2, etc.). FCXE right-click should always present or not present WinRAR with the same criteria as that implied with Windows File Explorer.

[dsperber]

Further discoveries and clues...

Again... this is Win11 25H2, running FCXE specifically in user-mode where at least certain 3rd-party shell extensions will appear. Something about FCXE running in admin-mode which 100% prevents those 3rd-party shell extension entries from ever appearing in the right-click menu. And yet there are other 3rd-party products (e.g. Notepad++ and PowerISO) whose shell extensions will ALWAYS show up, no matter FCXE launched in user-mode or admin-mode.


So, I was working with MP4 files today, and wanted to look at the file properties of what I had produced with my edits. My normal tool for this is through MediaInfo, accessed through its "shell extension" from the right-click on the MP4 file appearing in a Windows File Explorer window.

Today, surprisingly, when I right-clicked on that MP4 file I did NOT see MediaInfo's usual entry in the popup context menu. In fact I didn't see any of the other usual suspects (i.e. other 3rd-party programs which I have installed and which themselves have their own shell extensions adding their entry to the popup menu) which also normally appear. Very abbreviated right-click menu. Very strange.




Then I had a recollection about something I recalled about the relevance (for FCXE I think?) of the relevance of the actual mouse cursor physical location relative to the file name text itself as it appears on that line in File Explorer (or FCXE?) when issuing the right-click (i.e. whether the cursor is physically on the left side of the line somewhere over the text of the file name vs. whether it is to the right somewhere over the blank space on the right of the text of the file name). I remembered something different about the right-click behavior depending on whether the mouse cursor was hovered toward the left and over text, or toward the right and over blank space, when the right-click was issued. Couldn't quite remember the details, but I did remember that cursor location was relevant to what got presented.

So still in File Explorer I repeated my right-click, this time having the mouse cursor hovered over the file name text. And sure enough there was an absolute difference in the contents of the popup menu. All of those expected additional 3rd-party program shell extension items now appeared, seemingly "collected at the bottom" of the menu.



Now this behavior is all brand new stuff with Win11, and specifically what Microsoft did new in 25H2 relative to lots of things like user programs being no longer allowed to do things they previously were allowed to do, pertaining to the taskbar, notification area, popup menus and shell extensions, etc., and what 3rd-party programs were allowed or no longer allowed to do, or maybe a new way that they now need to do things.


Now, trying the same thing in FCXE, varying the mouse cursor location to either be on the left side over the file name text or on the right side over the blank area on the line, there does not seem to be any difference in popup menu appearance. Same results (i.e. failure) as I've now shown earlier, where the first right-click does NOT show the expected items, but the second and subsequent right-clicks still within the same FCXE launch session DO show all of the expected items.

In my mind I somehow think this is DIFFERENT than it used to behave, where the left/right location of the mouse cursor WAS relevant to what was shown on the popup menu. But now with 25H2 this FCXE behavior no longer seems "sensitive to cursor location", but simply fails all the time to show those items on the first right-click but does show them on second and subsequent right-clicks.

Almost like they actually got discovered by that first right-click but too late in the popup menu formatting process to actually get formatted and appear. But because they had now actually been discovered (by that first right-click, but "late in the game"), they were actually stored somewhere making them residually now known going forward in the same FCXE launch session. This could explain how from all right-clicks after that first right-click, the second and subsequent right-clicks saw them (in their residually non-empty memory field locations) and thus now always presented them... even though they still were not actually in time by the current normal right-click logic but simply because they were actually discovered previously and residually remembered by that original first click. And so they now always get presented in all subsequent right-clicks still within the same FCXE launch session, where this residual knowledge remains residual throughout.


So I now notice that the list of 3rd-party programs is more than just WinRAR which is failing to present its shell extension on that first right-click of an FCXE user-mode launch session.



I now see that the list of right-click FCXE+25H2 mishandled programs also includes MediaInfo, Mp3Tag, BitDefender, and very likely more. There is also what looks like a Windows-added item about "Edit with Notepad".